‘India listened to us only when we took up arms’

Part - 3 of 'From the Underground', a series of interviews for Tehelka Magazine.

The Naga rebellion has spawned many groups in the past 60 years. NSCN-IM’s Maj Gen Phunthing Shimray tells AVALOK LANGER that his outfit wants to bring all Nagas under one administrative umbrella

Nestled in the dense jungles of the Naga Hills, the Naga people’s movement simmers, ignored and unresolved. Since 1946, the Naga National Council (NNC) had championed the cause, but today, a new generation of separatists hold the reins of the movement.
Dissatisfied and unwilling to accept the controversial Shillong Accord, by which members of the NNC came overground and surrendered, Isak Chisi Swu, Thuingaleng Muivah and SS Khaplang broke away from the group and formed the National Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) in 1980. With external support, the NSCN pushed towards self-reliance and sustainability. As it grew into a modern, organised and lethal movement, it lent support to other rebel outfits.

In 1988, the NSCN split into NSCN-IM (Isak Chisi Swu and Th. Muivah) and NSCN-K (SS Khaplang). Today, 10 years into the ceasefire, Nagaland’s demand for freedom remains intact. Excerpts from an interview with Maj Gen Phunthing Shimray, one of the new generation leaders, in Mokokchung:

What is keeping the Naga movement going?
When I go to India, they tell me, ‘You are a part of India, you should be happy that you have everything.’ But I want to be free, I want my right to choose. India’s claim to Nagaland is a legal one, because Nagaland was handed over to them by the British. But nations aren’t just born, they are created by people coming together. It is not about having a legal right, it is about the aspirations of the people and their right to choose. We never chose India. If the aspirations of a people are not met, there will always be conflict. For 200 years, the British ignored the aspirations of India and this gave rise to the Indian freedom struggle. Today, India is ignoring the aspirations of the Nagas and we are fighting for our right to self-determination.

The NSCN has been described as ‘the mother of insurgencies’ in the Northeast. Did it offer support to other movements?
If you are beaten up every now and then, won’t you raise your voice? Won’t you seek legal recourse? If the law fails you, then what, won’t you take it up yourself? It is not a question of helping them; it is about struggling people aspiring for their rights. India talks about 8 percent growth, but who is growing, my friend? Not the common man. India’s democracy is only benefiting the privileged few. Earlier, the Northeast was considered untouchable, it was ignored, a taboo of sorts. No one looked at us or heard our problems when we used the democratic process. But now that we have taken up arms, the Indians listen. We may have helped some of the organisations, but all of them have their own source: the people.

Rumour has it that the NSCN-IM actively helped the Naxal movement. Is there any truth in this?
Yes, we helped them, but not since the commencement of the ceasefire (10 years ago). For us, it is not about left, right, capitalist or communist. It is about the people, about their rights and aspirations.

What is your reply to those who believe that development will end the Naga insurgency?
It has been 60 years, if it had to, it would have died out by now. The Indian government pumps in crores every year but nationalism can’t be bought, it comes from the heart. Even if Dimapur and Kohima become like Kolkata, the movement will not die. Yes, there may be some who are taken in by development, but the numbers are with the movement. It is not about money, it is not about development. It is about our rights, our freedom and the uniqueness of the Naga people who can’t be bought.

The NSCN-IM leaders visited Delhi in March and submitted a list of 30 confidential demands. Some media reports said they had given up the demand for sovereignty and only want greater autonomy...What does greater autonomy mean to you?
To me, it means sovereignty. We cannot compromise on that, it is the right of the people, the will of the Nagas. In a democratic set-up, the will of the people is supreme. We also asked for separate passports. If I have a separate identity from you, wouldn’t I want my own passport? Nagalim (Greater Nagaland) has always been our goal, we have always wanted to bring all Nagas under one administrative umbrella. There is nothing new about that.



Like Jammu and Kashmir was given its own constitution, flag and special provisions, would you be willing to go down that path?
That is not an option. We don’t want a Naga version of Article 370. It has done nothing for the Kashmiris. It gave them all the power to run their state, but at the same time India took it all back. So, what’s the use? You need a home, a place you call your own, a place you can go back to. Once you have that, you can travel the world. Without that, you are a man without a country. For example, where do you originally come from? (I try to explain my confusing mixture of pre-Partition North West Frontier and Kashmiri lineage. He smiled and continued...) See, you didn’t fight for your homeland and now you have lost it. You are a man without a nation and that is a future we won’t settle for.

How do you react when people say that the Naga people’s movement is an insurgency? Does that bother you?
Bhagat Singh was called a terrorist once. People said he was just an angry man acting out of frustration, but he was not afraid to die for his beliefs. He was a one-man army battling the British, but he fought for his cause, his people. The British labelled him a terrorist, an underground element, but today, he is revered as a freedom fighter, a national hero.

When I was young, I saw my people struggling. That is why I wanted to help my people. I am pushed to lead my people by my conviction. I am who I am and you are who you are, but we must learn to accept each other for our differences. Then we can move forward, that is what I want.

‘Gandhi supported the Naga desire for independence’

Part - 2 of 'From the Underground', a series of interviews for Tehelka Magazine.

For more than six decades, a section of the Naga community has been fighting for freedom. Naga National Council veteran Thinoselie Keyho tells AVALOK LANGER why the battle is not over yet

Tucked away in the Northeast, a 60-year-old insurgency festers unresolved. Exposed to the nationalistic fervour that gripped Europe during World War I, Naga workers returning from France took the first step towards creating a unified identity by forming the Naga Club (NC) in 1918. As cohesiveness grew among the 16 Naga tribes, the NC gave way to the Naga National Council, under whose leadership, the struggle for freedom started.
Citing religious, historical and cultural differences with India, the Nagas wanted their own state. The tribes, who were conquered and ruled by the British, felt they should be left as they were: independent. On 14 August 1947, as the British Raj crumbled, Nagaland celebrated its independence day. The failure of talks and Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru’s aggressive policy propelled a strategic shift from political to military, and the Naga insurgency was born.

Lt Gen Thinoselie M Keyho, 80, has been one of the driving forces of the Naga National Council. Excerpts from an interview with one of the outfit’s seniormost leaders:
Why did the initial talks with the Indian government fail?
Nehru pounded the table and said that even if the sky falls, he or any other Indian PM will not give Nagas independence. Sometimes, I wonder if it was an outburst or a prophecy. Everything changed after Mahatma Gandhi’s assassination. He loved and encouraged us. He supported our decision to be independent. If he hadn’t been assassinated, well who knows...

What made you join the NNC?
I was asked the same question in Delhi.

Did you like Delhi?
Well, I spent four years in Delhi, all of them in Tihar Jail. I didn’t get to see much of the city. I was a political prisoner in the 1970s. I have lived through what the Indian government has done to the Nagas. I have seen it with my own eyes, heard it with my own ears. The Assam Rifles came to our village and killed two Gao Buras (village leaders). They tied them and put them on display at the village square. The troop leader mocked them as they lay there dead, tied to a bamboo pole. He warned us that we would suffer the same fate.

We weren’t scared. Instead of discouraging us, it angered us. We are tribals, we had to avenge their deaths, so we joined the movement. If violence begets violence, it was started by the Indian government. They started with the ballot war, but when it failed (the first national election was boycotted by the Nagas), India started the bullet war.
This recurring trend of “anger over fear” was explained to me by Kaka Iralu, the custodian of Naga history. It stems from the strong sense of our tribal identity. A Naga is never alone; we know our obligation, our duty to the tribe. If a Naga is killed by an outsider, it is our duty to avenge his death. Maybe fear by example was not such a good idea.

There are rumours that the NNC received training and support from the Chinese. Are they true?
If you want peace, prepare for war. The Indian government used peace talks (it offered general amnesty in 1957-58) to buy time to close in on us. But before they did, we went to China (in 1967-68). People still wonder how we managed that. Was it by car, bike, plane or train? they ask. With old maps and a compass, we walked. It was tough, we weren’t experts at using a compass and villages on the map weren’t on the ground and vice versa. All we had was our faith in God that we would make it. We received food and shelter from the locals as we moved from one village to another. Hunted by the Indian and Burmese army, we posed as a Christian peace mission to get by. When we reached near the Hokan Valley in Burma, the Kachin Independence Army took us under their wing and guided us to China.

What happened when you reached China?
The Chinese were not aware that we were coming. They were surprised when we crossed into the country and walked right up to their border camp. We were forced to stay at the camp for 10 days, waiting for the translators to arrive. It was tough to communicate before that because no one spoke English. Once the translators came and we explained our situation, everything was alright.



Then they took our boys to the barracks and trained them in combat, while Thuingaleng Muivah and I were taken to see some of the important places in China. The Chinese believe that “seeing is believing” and they wanted to show us how they were successfully building their nation.

We learnt a lot more from the Chinese than we did in Pakistan (East Pakistan 1962-63). While the Pakistanis had given us basic training and some weapons, the Chinese not only trained our boys to fight but also taught us military strategy and gave us political and psychosocial training.

What happened after that?
While Muivah stayed behind, I led half of the group back and we managed to sneak back into India undetected. Armed with AKs given by the Chinese (the NNCwas the first to have AKs in India) our morale was high as our boys, who were better trained and equipped, inflicted heavy losses on the Indian Army. All India Radio announced that both sides had suffered 300 casualties. It was then I knew that the Indian Army had suffered heavy losses. We were a group of 60 Nagas surrounded by 2,000 Indian soldiers. If Muivah had made it back from China, the situation in Nagaland would be very different today.

Having been a part of the Naga people’s movement from the start, what do you feel when you see Nagaland today?
Earlier, the Nagas were described as sincere, hardworking and honest people. Where are those qualities today? Nagaland has become a spoilt child; corruption and laziness are rampant and the Indian government supports this. When officials come from India, they are bluffed by the local officials. Even if 50 percent of what the Indian government gives to Nagaland is utilised effectively, we would be one of the most developed states in the country. Instead, we have 300-400 crorepatis awash in corrupt money. Corruption is not restricted to government officials and politicians, but it has crept into our boys as well.

What is the next step for Nagaland?
We can only move forward once the different factions (NSCN-IM, NSCN-K, NNC and FGN) resolve their differences. The summit for reconciliation held on 18 September is misleading. It was not inclusive and the groups are now voicing their reservations. I don’t know if this unity will last. We all need to sit together and have a face-to-face talk. A lot of blood has been shed and a lot of ill will has been created. We can never forget, but we have to forgive, whether we like it or not. India will take us seriously only if we are united and sincere. If the Indian government sees Nagaland as a political problem, then please send politicians, not the military. The army is taught to fight, kill and destroy, not to build. India has to be sincere in its efforts. The Nagas may be confused, but Delhi is even worse.

Is sovereignty still your demand? Are you willing to compromise?
We have fought for it and bled for it. We want independence. We are not worried about our economy. Our land is rich and our soil is fertile, our economy will grow. If India recognises our rights and our independence, Nagaland will be a good neighbour. As for compromise, I want 100 percent. But if the Naga people agree to 90 percent, who am I to argue otherwise.

‘For money, Dhaka turned a blind eye to our activities’

Part - 1 of 'From the Underground', a series of interviews for Tehelka Magazine:

After a 16-year insurgency against India, Julious Dorphrang is a disillusioned man. The former HNLC chairman tells AVALOK LANGER that Khasis must change from within, instead of blaming outsiders

Carved out of Greater Assam in 1972, Meghalaya’s statehood was only the first step towards its cultural preservation. Unemployment and the inability to compete with established nontribal businesses gave rise to discontent and anger among the Khasi, Jaintia and Garo tribals. The anger gave birth in 1978 to the Khasi Students Union (KSU), which fought to safeguard indigenous rights and culture.

Slogans of ‘Khasi by blood, Indian by accident’ gave way to violence. In 1987, three KSU men were trained by the Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN). The Nagas, looking to destabilise the region, needed safe routes into Bangladesh and the Khasis had to fix their ‘outsider problem’. After the Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC) was formed in 1993, the Khasi underground was born. After 16 years of rebellion, former HNLC chairman Julious Dorphrang surfaced in 2007. Now, he wants to do much more for his people. Excerpts from an interview with the former law student at his Mawlai (outer Shillong) residence:

Why did you join the Khasi underground?
When I was a student, there were no opportunities for the youth. There was no development. Building roads is not development; you have to build the village economy. As a KSU member, I saw the violence of the securitymen. We had to do something. With the moral, physical and financial support of the NSCN, we transformed ourselves into an underground movement. Once a businessman asked me why we do this. I replied that we do this because we want to draw the attention of those in power. They are now sitting on a pin — we are the pin — and they can no longer do as they please.

What was the HNLC’s goal? Sovereignty?
We never asked for sovereignty. We wanted the power to govern ourselves. Will Nagaland get independence? I don’t think so, but maybe Nagalim (Greater Nagaland) will be formed.

You established HNLC camps in Bangladesh. Did you get any official support?
Through my local contacts, I met a couple of high-ranking army and government officials. A colonel said to me, “Don’t you know our country is poor?” I said, “Yes, I know, but your heart is very big.” We had to use money power. Their support was not from the heart. It wasn’t like, since you are fighting India, I will support you. It was all about the money. Every border outpost has a Major in command. All you had to do was send Rs. 10,000 every Eid and he would turn a blind eye to our trans-border activities. Even the ISI had approached us through our general secretary Cheristerfield Thangkhiew to push fake currency into India. Though it was a lucrative proposition, I refused. Who would suffer? Not the Indian government, but the Khasis. To build camps, we targeted the Khasi villages in Bangladesh. They were being oppressed by Muslim zamindars. We paid off their loans and offered them protection. In return, we got some land where we set up our camps. The authorities knew about our activities, but they turned a blind eye.

Where did the HNLC get its arms from?
Once we had money, arms were never a problem. In eastern Burma (Myanmar) there is a tribe called the Wa. They are one of the most dangerous opium cartels in the world. Being of Chinese stock, they can easily cross into China to buy weapons for their private armies. After using them for three years, they sell them in the black market. They are picked up along the Indo-Myanmar border and then from Mizoram and Manipur are brought to the arms markets in Bangladesh (Bandarban and Sylhet). You can buy anything: AK-47/56, M-16s, RPGs, grenades, 9mm Berettas, etc.

How much did an AK rifle cost?
Depending on the honesty of the person you send, I’d say about two lakh taka (approximately Rs. 1.27 lakh).

Where did you get the money to buy arms?
The early years in Bangladesh were tough. Money wasn’t easy to come by. In every village that we used as a hideout, I set up a betel nut plantation. The pan made from betel nut leaf was popular and the locals would flock to buy them. We made Rs. 30,000 to Rs. 40,000 a day from each plantation.

Was the HNLC involved in extortion?
We imposed collection on businessmen. We would set an amount based on their income, which was open to negotiation. We also collected tax from petrol pumps (Rs. 5,000 a month), wine shops and corrupt government officials. We used our intelligence network to hunt officials dealing with black money. We tried our best to clean up the system. But in the long run, it was our boys who got corrupted.

How did the organisation maintain its popular support?
You can’t wage war with money. If I give you Rs. 10 lakh, will you love me? Only from the lips you will, not from the heart. I told my boys you cannot win the love of the people with money or guns. We had to help the Khasi people, make the society better. So to rid the society of rape, we launched Operation Kyllang (hurricane). Rapists were publicly punished. We would pierce a lock through their ear lobes, lock it and throw away the key. We would shoot him with one bullet (making sure it wasn’t lethal) and then drop him off at the hospital. We were able to successfully reduce crime in the Khasi Hills.


But that scenario has changed now...
The HNLC is nothing now and you can quote me on that. There are no more cadres (only 55 are left in Bangladesh). The experienced lot has vanished. (Commander- in-chief) Bobby Marwein and Cheristerfield just don’t care, they are not sincere. I became so disgusted and frustrated that I had to get out. I wasted 16 years of my life. I could have done so much more.

Do you get death threats from the HNLC now?
I don’t care about that. I have made my decision. Whatever happens, I am a man. One day, sooner or later, I might die (probably of) old age, or any eventuality that a man doesn’t know. That is the way of life. But I will not die at the hands of Bob (Bobby Marwein). That, I know. Some people say I’m a terrorist, a militant, but now I am overground. I want to live a normal life, be a good father and a good citizen.

What does the future hold for you?
I still feel depressed when I travel through my state. I want to do something before I get old, but I cannot do it alone. Sometimes, I get frustrated with the church. Why does the church talk against the HNLC? Why don’t they condemn the politicians who attend mass in their Sunday best? The church turns a blind eye to corruption. What is the difference between the HNLC and these politicians? We loot at gunpoint, they loot in suitcases. They are also terrorists. We should stop electing the same lot. Enough of blaming outsiders, the problem has to be fixed from within.